It's fascinating to have a glimpse into a parallel history of computing that happened in a small country without the resources to make it big, but with tireless efforts of brilliant mathematicians and engineers who made the advancements against the odds.
If the history ran along a parallel path, I wonder what could have been different and what would have ended up exactly the same.
Poland may seem small to USians, but it is not a small country by any stretch of the imagination, either on a global or European scale. It is significantly larger than Austria and only slightly smaller than Germany. For context, Poland is about 8 times bigger than The Netherlands.
How do you know you can comprehend someone's English? You assume you do because the information conveyed isn't self-contradictory or nonsensical, doesn't contradict your observed reality and things you know to be true, and is unlikely to do so by mere chance.
> as the inefficiency of the centralisation efforts meant that it was met with delays and a lack of coordination.
Starting in 1981, I lived through the evolution of "personal computers" and have worked in the startup side of high tech most of my career. Even in the U.S. it was hard to create a successful, sustainable business in computing. I can't even imagine trying to do the same in the Eastern block with central planning, lack of ecosystem and myriad other challenges. Here in the U.S. there was a rueful saying in tech that "sometimes the better product doesn't win" but it was a saying because it was usually an exception. At least there was a general expectation that better products would win. It's kind of tragic how much engineering talent went to waste or was never utilized behind the iron curtain.
A little over 20 years ago I visited Warsaw for a few days and, of course, sought out the technology museum. I think I may have been the only visitor while I was there. Every large hall had a dedicated guard sitting in a chair, who mostly looked like retired pensioners. I felt bad because I woke up a lot of nice people just walking quietly through. The museum was mostly focused on industrial, manufacturing and agricultural technology but there was quite an extensive computer hall and it was chock full of fascinating mainframe and mini-looking systems I'd never seen, even in pictures. I was surprised that, other than terminals, there was little in the way of desktop or home computers. Thinking about it I realized that circa 2000, Poland's early desktop and home computers were probably still in use and a few years away from museum fodder. The only bad part was there was virtually no info in English (at least back then) and no mobile phone translate apps.
> Thinking about it I realized that circa 2000, Poland's early desktop and home computers were probably still in use
Around 2000 we were already using normal x86 machines in the offices and homes. There was a company named Optimus which had multiple branches that back then provided: computers (assembling and selling these), software - they've become an official distributor for e.g. Activision, Ubisoft, Id Software, Disney etc., translations for foreign software, and they also become one of two offical Nintendo distributors in Poland. Optimus had chances to become a really good player here but due to financial management "problems" they have failed - to put this short. In 2009 Optimus merged with what nowadays is known as CD Projekt. Optimus' other child - a web portal known originally Optimus Net has become onet.pl and it survived till today but become a part of Ringier Axel Springer Poland.
There were specific places which used our "native" machines for years. For example last Odra computer was shut down on April 30th in 2010 after 34 years of continuos work at Polish Railways computer centre.
Beside the technology museum you mentioned there is (or was - not sure what happen) an Apple museum in Warszawa - folks hoarded over 1700 items under their care.
> Around 2000 we were already using normal x86 machines in the offices and homes.
Yes, I assumed so but figured if Poland had homegrown 8-bit micros in the mid-80s similar to the Galaksija in Yugoslavia or the rare Pecom 64 (of which I have one in my collection!), that they might still be in original owners hands in 2000 instead of museums.
> Country itself changed in last 20 years and if you haven't seen it again in that time, you should return
It was lovely when I visited but there were still some signs of the old soviet era lingering. I'm sure with the economic growth since then it's remarkably different today. I hope to see it someday!
> if Poland had homegrown 8-bit micros in the mid-80s
Poland had homegrown 8-bit micros in the mid-80s. Take a look at the computer magazine Bajtek [1] published from 1985, which focused on games and programming.
> still be in original owners hands in 2000 instead of museums.
Kinda, yes. Almost entirely for sentimental reasons though. The longest held ones would still likely be Amigas. Virtually only PCs were used in offices in 2000. Industrial cases would still hold on to some old machines simply because nobody upgrades those. (But that's kind of like subways today still working from floppies)
And then there's the in between of dos terminals for accounting, inventory, etc. Those were everywhere and survived for so much longer than in other countries as far as I can tell.
> if Poland had homegrown 8-bit micros in the mid-80s
Personal possession of Home computers, printers and copiers was illegal in Poland under Iron Curtain. After all it could be, and often was [1], used to undermine the regime!
Anecdote from book "High-tech behind the Iron Curtain. Electronics, computers and control systems in the Polish People's Republic" ("High-tech za żelazną kurtyną. Elektronika, komputery i systemy sterowania w PRL" 978-83-8098-094-5)
>In 1984, "Informatyka" magazine, involved in the dissemination of these machines, reported on the adventures of Mr. Przemysław, who received in April [...] a package from his brother in Toronto, containing the VIC-20 microcomputer, power supply, cassette recorder, a set of cassettes for television games and English language manual and connecting cables. The Customs Office in Gdynia refused to issue an import license, stating that it could issue [...] only if the computer was necessary for the citizen's professional or scientific work
Computers became legal somewhere around 1985 when Atari landed in special regime Pewex enterprise shops - shops only accepting hard western currency, currency illegal to own privately in the country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pewex
Elwro computers were sold to ministry of education or send to USSR sold for "transfer ruble", a fake currency with ridiculous fake official dollar exchange rate making every sale a huge loss for the factory. There were amateur DIY plans published in magazines, COBRA in AUDIO VIDEO and CA80 in Radioelektronik. Nobody was manufacturing those computers and afaik plans were being published during design and debugging making recreation a nightmare. >99% of 80s computers in Polish homes came smuggled from the west and most went straight to garbage in late nineties. Poland freed from russian occupation was getting wealthy really fast and nobody had time for obsoleted hardware.
Poland had homegrown computers in the mid-80s. One of the major Polish computer magazines of the time, Bajtek, was published from 85 [1]
Casually looking in the magazines published in 1985, during the time of the iron curtain, reveals a lot of fun stuff like games and poke codes, but also more serious stuff. Nothing here suggest that home computers where illegal to have at home.
In fact [2] suggest that home computer use in Poland was wide spread.
those problems were not management, founder of Optimus- Roman Kluska is one of the most briliant minds in Poland, even today. Problems were caused by the state itself, first directing Optimus to book VAT in certain way, and then the same state accusing Optimus of defrauding VAT. Roman Kluska was imprisoned and had to pay 8mln PLN to be bailed, later when he was deemed not guilty that money was never returned to him, not to mention all damage they caused to himself and his business. These are leftovers of communism aparatus, nobody liable for anything.
I actually heard the administration was specifically bribed to oust Kluska by the HP who were entering the market at that time.
It’s a rumor but considering how corrupt was everything back then, I find it completely plausible since otherwise it would be against Polish raison d’etat to kill a strong, homegrown computer manufacturer.
Thus "problems"; I didn't want to dive into whole story because this tree is already off-topic for a different period. Tho, thanks for a few additional words.
Good for you, friend, he surely is no saint- none of us is. But it is fact that all information served in Polish media about him were lies- proven in court when he was released from all charges. I can't remember media lounching the campaign to tell the truth, at the same magnitude they were spreading lies. And it is also true that he was the one to build Optimus from scratch, he started in his garrage- very much the story of Polish startup to learn from. Personally I know very few people who really liked their boss, and sadly this was especially true among Polish people in the '90s. I personally know business owners of the time who were stolen from by their management and employees. Finally, Roman Kluska being devote Catholic makes him many enemies simply because of that fact.
At the time Odra 1300 were in R&D, they were on par - in fact, ELWRO and ICL cooperated, so the hardware was locally designed but compatible, and base software was essentially localized from ICL one + local software packages.
This built a pretty good starting position to work on more advanced designs, but then certain stupidity happened in form of ES ("Single System") initiative, which a) was based around S/360 when S/370 was to be released b) ELWRO was assigned "mid performance" machines when it could actually deliver a much faster one.
I don't know for certain how true it is, but there's a legend that ELWRO prepared a design based on their best, but compatible with S/360 and thus rest of ES EVM - just way faster in smaller frame (effectively imagine top-tier S/360 CPU but in way smaller package), and kept true performance details secret until accidental leak caused a small but impactful political shitstorm that canceled the efforts.
If the history ran along a parallel path, I wonder what could have been different and what would have ended up exactly the same.
For the PL nerds who are curious about Loglan, check out: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrzej-Salwicki/public...
Indeed. Note that on the tape drives, the take-up reel is on the left.
http://www.loglan.org/
Which evolved into Lojban:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban
[0] https://youtube.com/@mera400
> Programmers using Loglan’82 simply did not have to worry about issues keeping their Java-using colleagues up at night
Sometimes it would've been better if they just asked LLM to write an article.
Starting in 1981, I lived through the evolution of "personal computers" and have worked in the startup side of high tech most of my career. Even in the U.S. it was hard to create a successful, sustainable business in computing. I can't even imagine trying to do the same in the Eastern block with central planning, lack of ecosystem and myriad other challenges. Here in the U.S. there was a rueful saying in tech that "sometimes the better product doesn't win" but it was a saying because it was usually an exception. At least there was a general expectation that better products would win. It's kind of tragic how much engineering talent went to waste or was never utilized behind the iron curtain.
A little over 20 years ago I visited Warsaw for a few days and, of course, sought out the technology museum. I think I may have been the only visitor while I was there. Every large hall had a dedicated guard sitting in a chair, who mostly looked like retired pensioners. I felt bad because I woke up a lot of nice people just walking quietly through. The museum was mostly focused on industrial, manufacturing and agricultural technology but there was quite an extensive computer hall and it was chock full of fascinating mainframe and mini-looking systems I'd never seen, even in pictures. I was surprised that, other than terminals, there was little in the way of desktop or home computers. Thinking about it I realized that circa 2000, Poland's early desktop and home computers were probably still in use and a few years away from museum fodder. The only bad part was there was virtually no info in English (at least back then) and no mobile phone translate apps.
Around 2000 we were already using normal x86 machines in the offices and homes. There was a company named Optimus which had multiple branches that back then provided: computers (assembling and selling these), software - they've become an official distributor for e.g. Activision, Ubisoft, Id Software, Disney etc., translations for foreign software, and they also become one of two offical Nintendo distributors in Poland. Optimus had chances to become a really good player here but due to financial management "problems" they have failed - to put this short. In 2009 Optimus merged with what nowadays is known as CD Projekt. Optimus' other child - a web portal known originally Optimus Net has become onet.pl and it survived till today but become a part of Ringier Axel Springer Poland.
There were specific places which used our "native" machines for years. For example last Odra computer was shut down on April 30th in 2010 after 34 years of continuos work at Polish Railways computer centre.
Beside the technology museum you mentioned there is (or was - not sure what happen) an Apple museum in Warszawa - folks hoarded over 1700 items under their care.
https://applemuzeumpolska.webflow.io/en/home
https://nmt.waw.pl/en/
Country itself changed in last 20 years and if you haven't seen it again in that time, you should return
Yes, I assumed so but figured if Poland had homegrown 8-bit micros in the mid-80s similar to the Galaksija in Yugoslavia or the rare Pecom 64 (of which I have one in my collection!), that they might still be in original owners hands in 2000 instead of museums.
> Country itself changed in last 20 years and if you haven't seen it again in that time, you should return
It was lovely when I visited but there were still some signs of the old soviet era lingering. I'm sure with the economic growth since then it's remarkably different today. I hope to see it someday!
Poland had homegrown 8-bit micros in the mid-80s. Take a look at the computer magazine Bajtek [1] published from 1985, which focused on games and programming.
[1] https://archive.org/details/bajtekmagazine
Kinda, yes. Almost entirely for sentimental reasons though. The longest held ones would still likely be Amigas. Virtually only PCs were used in offices in 2000. Industrial cases would still hold on to some old machines simply because nobody upgrades those. (But that's kind of like subways today still working from floppies)
And then there's the in between of dos terminals for accounting, inventory, etc. Those were everywhere and survived for so much longer than in other countries as far as I can tell.
Personal possession of Home computers, printers and copiers was illegal in Poland under Iron Curtain. After all it could be, and often was [1], used to undermine the regime!
Anecdote from book "High-tech behind the Iron Curtain. Electronics, computers and control systems in the Polish People's Republic" ("High-tech za żelazną kurtyną. Elektronika, komputery i systemy sterowania w PRL" 978-83-8098-094-5)
>In 1984, "Informatyka" magazine, involved in the dissemination of these machines, reported on the adventures of Mr. Przemysław, who received in April [...] a package from his brother in Toronto, containing the VIC-20 microcomputer, power supply, cassette recorder, a set of cassettes for television games and English language manual and connecting cables. The Customs Office in Gdynia refused to issue an import license, stating that it could issue [...] only if the computer was necessary for the citizen's professional or scientific work
Computers became legal somewhere around 1985 when Atari landed in special regime Pewex enterprise shops - shops only accepting hard western currency, currency illegal to own privately in the country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pewex
Elwro computers were sold to ministry of education or send to USSR sold for "transfer ruble", a fake currency with ridiculous fake official dollar exchange rate making every sale a huge loss for the factory. There were amateur DIY plans published in magazines, COBRA in AUDIO VIDEO and CA80 in Radioelektronik. Nobody was manufacturing those computers and afaik plans were being published during design and debugging making recreation a nightmare. >99% of 80s computers in Polish homes came smuggled from the west and most went straight to garbage in late nineties. Poland freed from russian occupation was getting wealthy really fast and nobody had time for obsoleted hardware.
[1] https://hackaday.com/2016/07/05/retrotechtacular-how-solidar...
Casually looking in the magazines published in 1985, during the time of the iron curtain, reveals a lot of fun stuff like games and poke codes, but also more serious stuff. Nothing here suggest that home computers where illegal to have at home.
In fact [2] suggest that home computer use in Poland was wide spread.
[1] https://archive.org/details/bajtekmagazine [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/290109777_Playing_a...
I hate how with most history books published here, after a year or two it's impossible to get them due to low print :(
those problems were not management, founder of Optimus- Roman Kluska is one of the most briliant minds in Poland, even today. Problems were caused by the state itself, first directing Optimus to book VAT in certain way, and then the same state accusing Optimus of defrauding VAT. Roman Kluska was imprisoned and had to pay 8mln PLN to be bailed, later when he was deemed not guilty that money was never returned to him, not to mention all damage they caused to himself and his business. These are leftovers of communism aparatus, nobody liable for anything.
It’s a rumor but considering how corrupt was everything back then, I find it completely plausible since otherwise it would be against Polish raison d’etat to kill a strong, homegrown computer manufacturer.
This built a pretty good starting position to work on more advanced designs, but then certain stupidity happened in form of ES ("Single System") initiative, which a) was based around S/360 when S/370 was to be released b) ELWRO was assigned "mid performance" machines when it could actually deliver a much faster one.
I don't know for certain how true it is, but there's a legend that ELWRO prepared a design based on their best, but compatible with S/360 and thus rest of ES EVM - just way faster in smaller frame (effectively imagine top-tier S/360 CPU but in way smaller package), and kept true performance details secret until accidental leak caused a small but impactful political shitstorm that canceled the efforts.