3.4M Solar Panels

(tech.marksblogg.com)

120 points | by marklit 2 hours ago

8 comments

  • himata4113 44 minutes ago
    Florida and most dry / sunny states having little to no solar panels is pretty damn wild.

    I know in florida you have janky laws stopping you, but below 10kw it's still relatively easy.

    I have a friend who installed <10kw of solar panels and they're now 97% off-grid in hot, wet florida weather with an old low-seer AC, single-pane windows and poor roof insulation which is roughly 60% of the energy usage.

    The reason they got it is actually not to save money or anything, but to have power when grid goes down after hurricanes.

    • parpfish 24 minutes ago
      Don’t underestimate how politicized renewables have become. You’d think essentially free energy would sell itself, but any time solar comes up in a rural community there’s a whole host of bad faith “but what about x?” comments
      • himata4113 18 minutes ago
        I do have a funny story to share for this specific case:

        A landowner wanted to run power to their land, they got quoted 100k and possibly 250k to run less than 2 miles of powerlines.

        The land owner fired back with the question of installing solar panels instead as it would be cheaper and free.

        The representitive replied with: "Look around you, there's no solar panels because they don't work."

        Less than 100k later, the landowner had full off-grid power via solar and a backup generator.

        I guess at the end of the day they saw all the sunshine around them and said: "You're right, all that sun is mine and mine alone."

    • otterpro 26 minutes ago
      In Florida, the irony is that hurricane is the reason for not having too many solar panels. For example, Miami-Dade county requires commercial solar panel installation to have hurricane-approved solar mounts, which can withstand up to 160mph+ winds. This means installation is very costly. Even for homes, many insurance company will not insure homes with roof solar panel because of hurricane.
      • himata4113 23 minutes ago
        That's a requirement for everything, not just solar panels. The price premium for it is not that big since that's the only type of mounts you can get in florida. All modern housing is mostly category 5 rated due to the fact that hurricane damage grows exponentially as it picks up mass.
    • the_sleaze_ 28 minutes ago
      In Alabama regulatory capture is such that installing solar panels attached to the grid incurs fees higher than just buying the electricity from Alabama Power.
      • wing-_-nuts 6 minutes ago
        I'm interested to read a source on this if you have it
  • noduerme 1 hour ago
    What's the big deal with having a whole liquid cooled workstation, and why is it important information for me to know what this dude's hardware is? And seriously, is there something about the rig that is necessary to chew through a dataset with a few million rows?
    • everdrive 25 minutes ago
      Liquid-cooled computers have one major benefit; usually, your computer ages over time, and there's a long period where it's still barely fast enough but you wish you had something nicer. A liquid-cooled workstation prevents you from needing to manage this grey area by catastrophically failing at unexpected intervals.
      • wing-_-nuts 3 minutes ago
        Had me in the first half.

        I looked at using an AIO for my PC build but ultimately went with an air cooler the size of a damned rubix cube and a high airflow case.

        My room gets toasty with raytracing titles, lol

    • seanalltogether 55 minutes ago
      He just does this with all his blog posts, don't overthink it. The tech industry is full of people with unexpected quirks.
      • basilgohar 45 minutes ago
        We need more of this, not less. This is Hacker News. He gave us exactly what we need to know to exactly replicate his results.
        • hparadiz 33 minutes ago
          That's how I took it too. You always provide hardware information when publishing any data set that takes a long time to compile.
    • swiftcoder 18 minutes ago
      I really don't think we should be shaming computer enthusiasts for being enthusiastic about their computers on HN of all places
    • biesnecker 1 hour ago
      It had a very 90s/early-2000s tech blog feel to it. Only thing missing was his custom Gentoo build.
      • cyberge99 44 minutes ago
        I found it delightful. It added character and created a sense of relatability from the outset.
    • basilgohar 42 minutes ago
      Why is the top comment criticising a geek for being a geek? He gave us a wealth of information including his exact methodology and queries on how he produced his results. This is an ideal approach. You want just results and "trust me, bro"?
    • blitzar 52 minutes ago
      > 96 GB of DDR5 RAM

      Most people drive cars worth less than this.

      • basilgohar 44 minutes ago
        He could have gotten it when it was still cheap.
    • jmyeet 59 minutes ago
      I had the exact same thought, particularly when I read there were fewer than 4M records.

      I really have to wonder if people truly know how powerful any modern computer is. Like I just assume any modern PC with sufficient storage can handle a database with a billion rows of data. I think my phone probably could.

      Now if you were, say, analyzing commercial satellite imagery of the entire US and trying to find rooftop solar, matching it against the database and finding data that wasn't in the dataset, that's something where your computer power would be way more relevant.

      Come to think of it, you could probably use such imagery to construct a power generation network from power plants to transmission lines to utility poles. Of course some places have underground cables but there are other datasets for that.

      Another interesting project is mapping the growth of solar. This would require access to commercial satellite imagery over time. I'm sure some government agency already does it. Or used to at least. Snapshots years or even months apart are less interesting.

      Anyway, I guess the point is the author's computer is capable of way more than I suspect they think it is.

      • supermatt 16 minutes ago
        > than I suspect they think it is.

        Because he wants to tell you about his computer it means he doesn’t know how capable it is?

  • scblock 2 minutes ago
    The odd looking circular example shown is not solar PV. It is the Ivanpah solar thermal generating station, and those are mirrors rather than solar panels, or modules.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility

    Solar thermal can't really compete economically with photovoltaics.

  • ragebol 1 hour ago
    Would be kinda interesting to see a histogram of the azimuths and/or tilt angles.

    In my native Netherlands I'd guess to see that peaking at ~south at say 15-30 degrees, with some lower peaks at east/west combos.

    Curious to see what it would be in this dataset.

    • marklit 52 minutes ago
      I love that idea. I don't have time for anything elaborate today but I dropped two visualisations at the bottom of the post.
      • pjc50 5 minutes ago
        I love the radial one, which looks like it was laid out as a "mirror tower" installation and then maybe converted to PV?
      • ragebol 35 minutes ago
        Thanks, interesting to see!
    • Tade0 24 minutes ago
      There's a helpful chart here, which happens to match your approximate latitude:

      https://ratedpower.com/blog/solar-panel-orientation/

      • ragebol 18 minutes ago
        Thnx!

        Seems to match my experience as well, I got a set of 12 south facing panels and a set of 12 split over east and west on my flat roof. The E/W start and end a bit before/after the south facing set.

    • dhosek 1 hour ago
      It should be roughly correlated with latitude (the exceptions being panels on sloped roofs which will match the roof slope).
      • ragebol 36 minutes ago
        Tilt should correlate to latitude for panels with an azimuth due South.

        For panels with east/west azimuth, the tilt should correlate with where the sun is at 7-8AM and 17-18PM, at least in my area.

        ((I think you have your concept of azimuth and tilt mixed up; I know I have when I was originally typing a different parent comment)

  • showerst 1 hour ago
    Pretty cool, although the heatmaps have a little of the "this is just a population density map" effect. https://xkcd.com/1138/

    It would be cool to modify them to be per-capita, although I imagine adjusting arbitrary hexes for population density would be a real challenge.

    • noduerme 1 hour ago
      Something's wrong with xkcd's data if Portland doesn't rate a red dot on the furry porn map.
  • zahlman 1 hour ago
    It'd be nice if it described up front what kind of information is available per panel.

    For that matter, I'd be interested in details of how "a team of researchers including alumni from NOAA, NASA and the USGS" (from the previous article) actually collected the data.

    • throwaway219450 1 hour ago
      You can read the (open access) paper here:

      https://www.nature.com/articles/s41597-025-05862-4

      In the abstract: “We use these newly compiled and delineated solar arrays and panel-rows to harmonize and independently estimate value-added attributes to existing datasets including installation year, azimuth, mount technology, panel-row area and dimensions, inter-row spacing, ground cover ratio, tilt, and installed capacity.“

    • testrun 1 hour ago
      I would like to know more detail as well.
  • yogthos 1 hour ago
    To put this in perspective, China installs around 3x that every single day https://reneweconomy.com.au/just-staggering-china-installs-1...
    • pbmonster 17 minutes ago
      It's not a comprehensive dataset. The US installed 43 GW_peak in 2025, which should be around 80M new panels.

      Still, an order of magnitude less new capacity than China - but not two orders.

    • notTooFarGone 23 minutes ago
      With how backwards US policy is - this will be the major factor in the future.

      Energy heavy use cases with little to no energy costs will lap western industries.

      • yogthos 18 minutes ago
        Indeed, data centres for AI is a prime example of this where American grid is already starting to hit capacity.
        • mekdoonggi 2 minutes ago
          True, though I think it's a little more nuanced. There's still capacity, but the AI boom is unearthing all the "cheap" power places in the grid and buying them up.

          In order to keep growing, the US power grid is going to need big, coordinated projects. Solar, wind, transmission lines, and batteries.

          I think with political interest from Dems who like renewables, and big business who need energy, there's will in the US to do it, but of course it's the US, so we'll do the right thing after every possible alternative has been exhausted.

  • ck2 1 hour ago
    look how cheap now, it's crazy

    https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809986804138.html

    I'm old enough to remember Carter putting them on WhiteHouse roof and they were thousands of dollars then (and less efficient)

    • atwrk 55 minutes ago
      That's actually only cheap because of the free shipping - in Germany 450W panels are at about 55-60€ retail right now, for example. So a balcony set (2 panels for 1kW total, plus inverter) is about 150-200€, depending on the specific parts. Both exluding shipping, though.

      Prices fell dramatically in the last few years, if I understood things correctly the high prices in the US are mostly due to tariffs.

      • cyberge99 38 minutes ago
        That’s right. The current US president just reversed some of the previous administration’s Infrastructure Act which provided about 30% tax credit for installing solar.
    • saidinesh5 1 hour ago
      The link isn't available here. Can you share the specs and price of that panel?
      • daemonologist 1 hour ago
        I'm in the US and it's showing a 100W panel for USD 37.21 (free shipping, including tariffs but not state/local taxes).

        Also the panels Carter installed were solar water heaters - in 1979 solar photovoltaics were just starting to expand beyond satellites and cost like $40/watt.

        • ck2 54 minutes ago
          it's actually $33 because there's a $4 coupon available to everyone on the page

          and if you buy 2 at a time there are multiple 10% codes available

          so it's $67 USD for 200watts

          100watt 18volt 5amp panels that can be put in series or parallel

          for $33 each, it's crazy

      • dhosek 1 hour ago
        100W 18V for $37 and change.
        • dhosek 1 hour ago
          If we can get balcony solar in the US that will be a huge game changer.
          • driverdan 6 minutes ago
            Unless it's not allowed in your lease nothing is stopping you, go for it.
          • fred_is_fred 9 minutes ago
            It's legal in a few states already including Colorado and Utah - with more coming.
          • engineer_22 39 minutes ago
            Subtropical latitudes in continental US markets, you're looking at like $2/yr/sq ft of value for the power output.

            I'd want solar panels for like $5/sq ft installed, expecting 10 years of life.

            It's going to cost $1000 minimum to install, so the panels need to cost $2/sq ft x 300 sq ft to make this worth it. $1000 to install 300 sq ft + inverter and electrical panel upgrades seems light but might be reasonable we'll go with it.

            Larger than a balcony, but maybe in the realm of possibility for a roof.

            Right now solar panels cost what? $10 per square foot? Have they reached the physical limit of economic production/storage/transportation at $10 per sq ft or can it go lower?

            (Let's not get into battery micro-storage economics).

      • cma 1 hour ago
        $37.21 for a 100 watt panel with free shipping. I'm not sure if that is before or after 50% tariffs and/or the 10% "fentanyl" extra tariff that was announced a few days after Ross Ulbricht's pardon for running the world's largest opiates-by-mail operation.
        • horsawlarway 1 hour ago
          You can buy brand new in bulk in the US for roughly the same $/watt.

          I bought 30 375w Canadian Solar panels 2 years ago and paid $0.41/watt (~$4536 for the whole package)

          My mounting equipment actually cost more than the panels (~$4600). And the permitting process cost nearly as much as the panels (permit cost + architectural drawing + structural engineer stamp + electrician stamp).

          It's crazy how cheap solar panels themselves are getting. They're going to win on the energy front - period. Especially now that battery tech actually seems to be moving again. I vividly remember one of my robotics professors in undergrad ranting about how frustrated he was with battery tech in ~2007, but LFP and sodium batteries are both pretty huge steps forward.

          • tribaal 47 minutes ago
            Another data point: my entire system in Switzerland cost me 1.3CHF/Watt including a 20kWh battery and 5000 CHF of scaffolding costs (needed because of our local OSHA equivalent laws when installing panels on a tilted roof).

            It has become ridiculously cheap indeed.

          • engineer_22 35 minutes ago
            How much does power and grid delivery cost in Canada to make this economical? You're into this for $15,000 what is your payback period? Are there other ameliorating criteria for success?
            • horsawlarway 18 minutes ago
              I'm actually in GA (Canadian Solar is the panel manufacturer - CSI). Power is cheap in my region, and I was in ~$30k after all costs including the battery storage (LFP).

              It covers 95+% of the my usage, and I use a fair chunk of power. My payback period will be almost exactly 120 months (10 years) if my power costs remained the same as they did at estimation time.

              But they won't. We're already seeing relatively large rate increases (GA power has "locked" rates but conveniently has a floating "fuel charge" which is currently more than the base rate per watt...).

              I expect it to take 6 to 8 years to entirely recoup costs. It helps that I did the install myself, so I avoided contractor markup. Quotes from contractors for a similar install were running ~60k+ which felt (and was) insane, although STILL profitable over the lifespan of the install.

              Panels should then last another 20+ years after repayment with only minor maintenance.

              It's shocking how easily they pay for themselves right now, assuming you get decent sun on your property.

            • testing22321 23 minutes ago
              I got $7.6kw installed in BC , Canada. Fully installed for $13k. Minus $5k grant, and the $8 is on a 10 year interest free loan.

              Power is 13c kWh, guranteed to go up min of 5% a year.

              So now instead of paying $1000 a year in power, I put that on the loan which will be gone in 7 years. The 20 years of $1000 a year free money.

              I’ve had the system almost two years, they’re noticeably cheaper now. System makes 7.2Mwh per calendar year in a tight valley where it snows a ton.

        • dhosek 1 hour ago
          Heck even if that’s pre-tariff it’s cheap enough that it could be an impulse buy.
        • ck2 53 minutes ago
          it's from a US warehouse so there are no tariffs (or they've already been paid/included)
      • ck2 49 minutes ago
        sorry didn't think it would have geo-block

        https://images2.imgbox.com/8b/e1/R6pnQUCr_o.jpg

    • DonHopkins 1 hour ago
      And Reagan taking them down.

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/03/22/jiimmy-ca...

      >It was pretty symbolic back in 1979, too. The symbolism depended on what you thought of Carter and his policies. For some, the panels were a much-needed acknowledgment that America had to wean itself from fossil fuel, explore alternative energy sources and help save the planet. For others, they were in the same category as Carter’s virtue-signaling cardigan. Of course, critics moaned, Carter would put solar panels on the White House.

      >The panels came down in 1986 when the White House roof was undergoing repairs. Ronald Reagan did not have them replaced. Of course, Reagan wouldn’t put solar panels on the White House.

      What is the story behind Reagan taking down the solar panels installed by Carter? Was it symbolic of a new, less enthusiastic approach to clean energy?

      https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/g4w4ww/what_...

      Solar power at the White House

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_at_the_White_House

      >On June 20, 1979, 32 solar water heating panels were placed on the roof of the West Wing. The panels were made by InterTechnology/Solar Corp. from Warrenton, Virginia and installed by Hector Guevara of Alternate Energy Industries Corp.[2] At the dedication ceremony for the panels, President Carter said, "In the year 2000 this solar water heater behind me, which is being dedicated today, will still be here supplying cheap, efficient energy... A generation from now, this solar heater can either be a curiosity, a museum piece, an example of a road not taken or it can be just a small part of one of the greatest and most exciting adventures ever undertaken by the American people".[1]

      The whole installation cost $35,000 in 1979 (about $160,000 now).

      https://books.google.nl/books?id=e9dlzwL4Ck4C&dq=solar+white...