3 comments

  • embedding-shape 52 minutes ago
    How many apprentices did this guy managed to put through the pipeline before his career was over? It always shocks me how low this number tends to be for highly skilled craftsmen. They spend their century maintaining/creating some of the best work on the planet but when they disappear, unenumerable amount of knowledge, tips and experience silently disappears as quickly as it was gained, and it's sad to observe every single time.
    • bob1029 34 minutes ago
      It's sad but at the same time there is a sort of optimization that tends to occur each time the magic trick is rediscovered.

      Often it is not possible to separate the technique from the man. Things like riding a bike or flying a helicopter come to mind. A lot of what makes a master good cannot be written down anywhere. There isn't anything tangible to actually lose.

      How would you write a document that describes to someone how to ride a bike or dig holes efficiently? You could explain the principles and general ideas, but the apprentice is going to need to get scraped up a bit before they actually learn anything that matters. The apprentice willing to suffer repeated failure is where most of the heavy lifting occurs. The master is mostly a backstop to keep the apprentice alive.

      • Towaway69 17 minutes ago
        You speak of tacit knowledge[1]

        Worse is that they who have the knowledge don't realise that others don't know what they know, it's completely automatic and ingrained to the owner.

        [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacit_knowledge

        • embedding-shape 8 minutes ago
          I think they're touching on multiple things that typically happens between an apprentice and master, not just tacit knowledge. Also implicit learning, procedural / nondeclarative memory, expert intuition and metacognitive feelings, all very hard to quantify into a written document, but put two people together where one learns from the other, and all these somehow gets transferred over time.
      • embedding-shape 30 minutes ago
        > How would you write a document that describes to someone how to ride a bike or dig holes efficiently?

        You don't. You put these people together for some years to work on stuff together, and a small percentage of this "intangible" feelings, knowledge and experiences you cannot write down somehow magically passes over to the other person.

        Of course, the apprentice will still require their own repeated failures and uphill battle even getting close, but having someone who mastered the craft near you as you go through this, makes the whole process a hell of a lot faster.

    • logseman 35 minutes ago
      Their status and whatever wage they commanded depended on training as few apprentices as possible.
      • PunchyHamster 5 minutes ago
        Incorrect. I don't think I've met one person that were actually good at their job but didn't wanted to share the skill.

        It's because management didn't value it. They put the veteran on on more jobs rather on moving them to training, because short term it's more profitable, and mid term it's easier to poach veterans off competition rather than train them in house

    • applfanboysbgon 15 minutes ago
      This is one of the saddest aspects of our societies being optimized for maximum short-term gains. In the past, master craftsman would own their own shop and pass it down to their apprentices, leaving a tradition and legacy that could last hundreds of years. This dynamic is becoming increasingly rare.
      • Towaway69 1 minute ago
        This is relative. In two generations, the concept of "master craftsman" and longevity will have been forgotten and short term thinking will the be "norm".

        It is only because we know and can compare that we judge.

        Remember, when we were hunter & gatherers, before becoming bound to the land and tilling that land, we had different gifts and talents that have all been lost. For better or worse.

        Or closer to home: barely anyone remembers black and white television or the feeling it must have been to view the moon landing on one.[1] Cathode ray TVs have gone the way of the Dodos - good or bad? Who knows.

        Whether a long term or short term outlook is better or worse, no one can tell because there aren't any goals nor targets to meet in evolution.

        [1] https://archive.org/details/apollo-8-bbc-coverage

  • toomuchtodo 2 days ago
  • rvz 2 days ago
    Aviation Legend. RIP Azriel.