10 comments

  • petcat 1 hour ago
    These all require Google or Apple devices both by the seller and the buyer. Wero explicitly does not even support non-Google Android devices.

    I'm not sure that replacing Visa and MasterCard is really that big of a sovereignty move considering the pervasive dominance American mobile OS tech has. It's a much harder ecosystem to replace.

    • jeroenhd 1 hour ago
      Updating an app to not require the Play Store is a lot easier than switching payment provider backend.

      Wero can fix the dependency on Google in a day, I don't think the dependency on Google is as bad as the broader dependency on Mastercard/Visa is.

      That said, I'd much prefer a European implementation of the same remote attestation APIs that Google uses to convince payment processors that phones can be trusted to manage finances.

      On iOS you don't really have a choice so until someone runs Linux on an iPhone, iPhone users are just screwed.

      • M95D 1 hour ago
        > to convince payment processors that phones can be trusted to manage finances

        Phones can NOT be trusted to manage finances. They should issue EU credit/debit cards instead.

      • zb3 57 minutes ago
        Yep, they can allow GrapheneOS, right now. So let's pressure them into doing that.
      • petcat 58 minutes ago
        > I'd much prefer a European implementation of the same remote attestation APIs that Google uses to convince payment processors that phones can be trusted to manage finances.

        You're basically talking about "government Android phone" since it is built into the chips on the device.

        I wonder how 330 million average Europeans will respond to not being able to use iPhones or Google Android phones anymore because they are instead being forced to use "government Android phone" for safety from USA.

        I think they'll actually just revolt against the government instead

        • vrganj 52 minutes ago
          Nobody's gonna revolt for Big Tech, man. Be real.
          • petcat 39 minutes ago
            You underestimate how much people love their iPhones, and how much they will hate being forced to use "government Android phone" instead

            Not to mention that the EU seems to be incapable of actually building usable software, let alone a whole mobile OS ecosystem

            https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-microsoft-teams-alternati...

        • zb3 54 minutes ago
          You mean Huawei? Europeans are ok with that, kernel being encrypted or not.
    • abcd_f 59 minutes ago
      You can't be serious. Getting rid of the need to pass purchases through these two American behemoths will be a huge step in the right direction.
    • znnajdla 1 hour ago
      You've got to start somewhere. You peel each layer off the dependency stack one at a time.
    • bilekas 1 hour ago
      They don't though, unless I'm missing something stupid there is parity across all national options. And here for example the bank itself has Bancomat AND Visa as an option to pay by at a POS or online etc.

      This will allow me to use my card online with a merchant in Germany for example and use my Bancomat process (whatever the new interface is called) will be the gateway.

    • sho_hn 42 minutes ago
      Once you have payment processing in-house, the decision of what devices to support is yours to make.

      If you don't, two lock-ins and network effects reinforce each other.

    • drivingmenuts 1 hour ago
      The hardware is harder to replace, but payment systems aren’t intrinsically tied to the operating systems, yet, except for encryption , which is handled on-device.
  • bilekas 1 hour ago
    So many people commenting that seem to miss what this is. It's the merging of national systems to simply allow a second option. Meaning no influence oversize from the duopoly. See steam news with visa for an example of then throwing their weight.
  • M95D 1 hour ago
    It's all based on phone apps, replacing Visa/Mastercard dependency with Apple and Google dependency. Far worse for privacy IMO.
    • Lio 1 hour ago
      Not sure it could be worse for privacy but even it was it would still stop Visa and Mastercard from refusing to carry payments.

      That's exactly what they did to high profile European judges. You can't pull that stunt and expect to get away with it long term.

      https://www.euronews.com/2026/02/18/us-sanctions-turn-intern...

    • bilekas 1 hour ago
      No it's not. Here in Italy your debit card allows you to pay by bancomat or Visa.
    • hhh 1 hour ago
      is Wero based on apps? iDeal only involves the banking app for me, the iDeal part is just a website
    • soco 1 hour ago
      Nevertheless, that app could be one day running with F-Droid and such... or that's what I dream. The infrastructure is only one piece of the huge dependency puzzle.
    • jmclnx 1 hour ago
      With GDPR I think it sill will be much much better that what VISA/Mastercard keeps on your activities.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula...

      • M95D 1 hour ago
        Well... no so much in practice. My bank automatically enrolled my personal phone number into the system. I asked them to remove it 2 months ago. One month ago I received a reply that they're working on it. I may be the only person in this country that asked for this - they're now probably thinking which is cheaper: to pay the GDPR fine, repeatedly, or patch their banking software and re-certify it, or maybe refuse to have me as their client.

        Anyway, I don't know if you actually read GDPR, but the government (& various agencies) and the bank are both exempted from GDPR. They will all know everything I bought through this system, from where and at what price.

  • pjc50 55 minutes ago
    One thing I'd like to check: what are the actual exclusion rules for these systems? The Visa/MC threat to anything deemed vaguely adult content is well documented, but what is and is not allowed on Wero?
  • silon42 59 minutes ago
    I remember when there was Eurocard/Mastercard...
  • BlackRabbit1 1 hour ago
    Attempt number 2000?
    • M95D 1 hour ago
      Attempt at ... what? All the national payment systems are already working. They're now interconnecting them.
      • andor 54 minutes ago
        And this seems to be another attempt at that. We already had the European Payments Initiative (with Wero), and now they are starting the European Network for Payments. Sounds like the People's Front of Judea vs. the Judean People's Front.

        Edit: There was also the Euro Alliance of Payment Schemes

    • whizzter 1 hour ago
      Mastercard pretty much depended on Eurocard/Europay for it's European reach (and vice versa) before the 2 merged, European institutions didn't have a problem selling out important infrastructure because Europeans overall trusted American stability and cooperation.
  • zb3 1 hour ago
    They could easily permit GrapheneOS without compromising on security. Not doing so is either a sign of gross incompetence or plain malice.
  • Diti 1 hour ago
    Challenging US dominance by implementing your European payment platform on AWS? Weird take…
  • carlosjobim 1 hour ago
    And the benefits for users would be?
    • bilekas 58 minutes ago
      Not being under the heel of a US financial Duopoly when their dear leader decides to tell them to charge 100%.

      Regional Financial autonomy is a very attractive benefit.

    • asimpletune 1 hour ago
      Probably lower prices since there’s competition between payment processors
      • maratc 3 minutes ago
        Usually, a product that costs $100 costs me the same $100 regardless of the payment processors involved (and $100 cash when none are involved), so I can't see where "lower prices for consumers" could come from.
      • carlosjobim 59 minutes ago
        There's already competition between payment processors, and not lower prices.
        • furst-blumier 53 minutes ago
          Isn't it actually "competition" in the visa/mastercard case?
          • carlosjobim 29 minutes ago
            There are many other options already besides Visa and Mastercard. What I'm asking and nobody wants to answer is what the benefits for users are. The first thing you should think about when making a new product or service.

            People are only answering me here with benefits for European politicians and their sovereignty. That's alright. But what I'm asking about is benefits for the users.

            For example, Visa and Mastercard offer fraud protection to the users, and many card emitters offer cashback to their users. Can this new European system offer this? If not, why not? Can they offer something else which benefits the user over current providers?

    • vrganj 1 hour ago
      Being able to pay across Europe with the systems they already have instead of only being able to use them in their own country.
      • carlosjobim 59 minutes ago
        You can already do that with Visa and Mastercard and IBAN.
        • M95D 55 minutes ago
          Not everyone.

          https://www.irishtimes.com/world/us/2025/12/12/its-surreal-u...

          This is probably what pushed them to accelerate the implementation.

        • iso1631 43 minutes ago
          American companies at the behest of American leadership which has turned is back on free trade and has weaponised trade against its allies.

          Removing reliance on American tooling is an essential security matter, it's going to take some time to unpick 80 years of interdependence though.

        • vrganj 53 minutes ago
          Yeah, but the point is to be able to do it without Visa and Mastercard.

          IBAN, I'll grant you. But it's not exactly intuitive.

          • carlosjobim 48 minutes ago
            I understand that this is the point, but what is the benefit for users?
            • KellyCriterion 6 minutes ago
              In case of IBAN: Wero is just another user/function layer on top of SEPA, adding things like "sent money by email or phone number", as they are the aggregator putting this function live,since this functionality was not supposed to be part of SEPA standard.
  • rattlesnakedave 1 hour ago
    For international payments anything other than a stablecoin sent on already common rails feels like beating around the bush.
    • hvb2 1 hour ago
      Why do you need a stablecoin if you can send the currency itself directly? If I have euros and the recipient wants euros, why would I need a stablecoin?

      Solution looking for a problem?

    • soco 1 hour ago
      I need international payments maybe once a month. Sample size of one.
      • M95D 47 minutes ago
        It's not for you. It's for companies. They're implementing it first for person-to-person transactions just to test the system. Wouldn't want a big corp to lose millions of euro because of a bug!